Aside from the creepy protecting-the-family-honour Taliban overtures, aside from the completely unnecessary public (And expensive) celebration of a private decision...

Seriously, just ew.

Well...let's just say that when I found out about those, I was very sad that I was (1. too old to be a good participant in that and (2. that my father turned out to be too much of a jerk to make me want to spend any time at all.

I do agree with the last bit in the article, though...shame issues would defenately fuel Something Bad. I'm fortunate that I never had that specific shame to take issue with, but I've had my own problems.

CW

Okay, I've spent the last couple of days trying to think of a polite way of saying this, and I can't - To me the whole thing reeks of the additude that a woman is a piece of meat, to be exchanged between two men so long as the freshness seal is intact.

Ok, lemme just start off by saying this conversation, ALWAYS, no matter what, has a chance of getting out of hand very quickly (About a month ago my small-group was starting up the premarital sex conversation, and our leader said that one group started that conversation, and overnight, the group fell apart with absolutely no warning at all.) so I'm gonna say if I step on your toes at all, it's by accident. I value our friendship and don't want to wreck it on something this small.

I think I understand what you're saying (please correct me if I'm wrong.) but I don't agree with the interpretation. It takes a social view and I don't see a choice for purity in the context of a Christian walk as a social issue.

...See PM for more details. I uh...got a little more spiritual than I wanted to in public.

CW

I for one thing virginity and celibacy is one issue that should still be taught as a virtue, not just some 'fuddy dutty' idea of a bunch of old men.

Best way to avoid VD's? Don't go sleeping around. Best way to avoid making babies? Don't go sleeping around.

Overall, society as a whole is trying to gear up into a type of mindset that by being promiscuous you're setting yourself free. I hate that. If one says having women taking vows in a ceremony to not have sex until marriage is being 'treated like a piece of meat', then what about the concept that one of the most intimate acts two people can share should just be a casual release with no meaning anymore? Celibacy has something greater behind it, because it represents sharing something with just one other person.

Also while on the subject, I find that men that sleep around are disgusting things too, and are equally as big of whores as their female counterparts and deserve just as much scorn.

So these ceremonies... definitely not worth a 'ewww'.

It's a family and friends event with the press invited. Things don't get much more social than that.

I have no problem with a woman or girl making her own decisions regarding her sexuality - And it's impossible to seperate family history, social background, or religious beliefs from that decision making process - including chastity. But this ceremony takes the decision outside of her hands. It's now a matter of family honour, overseen by her father.



Everyone always thinks their version of morality should be taught as the official version.



Two problems with this statement:

1) Numerous studies have found that abstinence-only programs deliver a higher rate of teen pregnancy and STD infection than broad-option programs. I'd link to the studies, but it only takes about 30 seconds with Google to find them.

2) So people who have sex outside of marriage are 'sleeping around'?



'Disgusting things'. 'Whores'.

Carver, you'd better be smiling real pretty when you call me names.

I don't smile when I'm serious.

I'm not the type of person that tries to convert by force. I'm the type of person that believes something firmly and holds by it.

It's why I don't drink alcohol, and why I'm still a virgin(and surprise surprise I don't owe any child support or have any VD's.... gee, I wonder why).

The problem with teaching abstinence is the teaching of it is done in such a way that it allows the thought of alternatives. Society in itself acknowledges these alternatives and uses them as jokes for sitcoms(the sponge, the diaphram, condoms, etc, all been the butt end of jokes).

And all these alternatives do is create the illusion of safety. It'd be like buying kevlar and convincing yourself you can walk into any dangerous situation and be safe. The only person you're fooling is yourself.

And also with the larger trend of abortions, young people, young women specifically, act without fear and will all abandon, throwing themselves and their bodies to gratification for acceptance by males that they probably wouldnt' care about a year later.

Throwing together gift baskets of condoms and such with a sex education that teaches barriers of protection that 'most of the time' work, then you get a recipe for disaster.

Okay, this conversation is done.

as is your goose.

Ok...this conversation is DEFENATELY done

Ian: Ok. Thank you for clarifying what your problem was. I understand now.

Ben: See your PMs.

Both: Take a break and cool off for a little while.

CW